Talking to Stephen Schwartz

By MARK BLANKENSHIP

TDF: Was there a particular moment that felt fresh?

Schwartz: In the sheep and goats parable, when [Jesus] says, “Whatever you did for someone here on earth, you did for me. Whatever you did not do for one of your brothers or sisters here on earth, you did not do for me.” Which is essentially the core of his philosophy. And in the context of today’s politics, that sounded kind of revolutionary. [Which is not to say] it’s a Sunday school lesson or that it’s meant only to deal in those terms. The show is essentially about the formation of a community, which is another thing we seem to be having a lot of trouble doing in America right now. So it felt as if it had a contemporary raison d’etre.

TDF: Beyond the relevance of the message, the show is also being staged in the round at Circle in the Square.

Schwartz: That felt like a really fresh way to approach it. I felt like it was really firmly based in the original concept and point of view of the show, yet finding a whole new way to stage it. That was exciting and fun to work on. Not that I did that much work, to be perfectly honest. Essentially, they did their production and from time to time, I would drop in and say, “Oh, I think you’re missing a beat here” or “Oh, I’m not sure you’re really doing what you think you’re doing there.” But essentially they did their production.

TDF: That’s an interesting role to play: Someone who stands outside the show and offers thoughtful responses to the rest of the creative team.

Schwartz: I tend to try to do that, even on a new piece. It’s why I don’t actually like to be at rehearsal unless the director insists on it. I really like to stay away and come, when invited, to see a run-through. Because I feel that I can be very objective about what’s there. I don’t know the reasons that choices have been made. I don’t know that they’re doing something because they couldn’t make the costume change, or they staged something some way because somebody was afraid of twisting his ankle. I just see what’s there, and I can say, “I don’t get it.” Or, “I don’t think you’re doing what you think you’re doing in this moment.” I’ve been told by directors that that’s very helpful to them, because they, by the nature of what they do, have to lose their objectivity all the time. [As a director,] you’re there every day, and you’re making choices based on day-to-day realities, and you can’t entirely see what the effect of that choice is on the piece. So I think it’s helpful for me, as someone who’s on the side of the piece, to be able to provide that objective response.

TDF: You said you try to do that when a show is brand new. Can you stay objective when you’re in the midst of writing something?

Schwartz: If you’re a writer on a new piece, that’s much, much more difficult to do. Because you have your own preconceptions. No matter how much you like the director and ultimately like the show, the first time you see it, it’s a complete shock. It looks nothing like what you thought it was going to be, and you have to assimilate that.

Schwartz: I’m not at the place where I’m rediscovering, but we work really hard to maintain Wicked. All of us. [We] are just trying to keep alive and fresh the original vision of the show in the various productions around the country and around the world.

Schwartz: Yes. Right now, it’s still about trying to maintain the quality and deliver for new audiences who are coming for the first time or [for audiences who are] seeing it again because they want to re-experience it. However, that being said, we had an interesting experience last year or the year before. There were two “non-replicated” productions done in Scandinavia. One was in Copenhagen, and it was fairly close to the original, but the other was in Helsinki, Finland. It was quite different in a lot of ways and just fascinating. Winnie [Holzman, who wrote the musical’s book] and I just loved seeing it, even though there were some things we were puzzled by. It was very political. It was very dark. Because they didn’t really know The Wizard of Oz, and their politics were different, and so much of much their recent politics have to do with their relationship to Russia. The whole Oz-ian thing was very Stalinesque. In fact, the Wizard looked like Josef Stalin. And Morrible was very KGB by the end of it. And there was this red eye, like the Eye of Sauron, that was watching everything. In some ways, it was closer to the totalitarian tone of Gregory [Maguire]’s novel, [which inspired the musical]. The story was still the story and the girls were still the girls, and all of that worked, but the context in which it was taking place was very interesting.

TDF: In America, I’d say, Wicked has been received as a musical that uses the early life of the witches of Oz to tell a story about self-acceptance. The green –skinned witch embraces her own power and worth, even though other people reject her. There are lot of political aspects, but they’re not really the primary element of the story. Were you surprised to see the show interpreted in a more political way?

Schwartz: Not really, because we’ve always known that it was quite political, but it brought that to the fore. I guess it taught me that the show operates on so many different levels that you can emphasize one of the levels a bit more than the original production did, or a bit less, and have a different show. Though I love the original production and am very happy being part of the team that is trying to deliver that experience in as fresh and well-executed a way as possible, I’m really interested to see what happens whenever the show closes. Eventually, that will happen, and then people will reinterpret it, and that will be interesting to see.

TDF: I’m not sure every composer would be excited about having his work reimagined.

Schwartz: My shows tend to be open to interpretation, most of them, and I like that about them. I like that people can come and have a whole new take on Pippin or Godspell or Working. And sometimes I’m really thrilled by what they’ve done, and sometimes appalled, but it’s interesting. Whereas [my show] The Baker’s Wife is always The Baker’s Wife, or My Fair Lady is always My Fair Lady. You can do it well, you can do it less well, but it is what it is.

TDF: It seems like a lot of your work is open to interpretation because deep down, your shows aren’t exactly about a single protagonist taking a journey. Or at least, there’s also a deeper social energy that’s defining things.

Schwartz: Yes, and the context is sometimes abstract and therefore open to be recontextualized. Whereas sometimes, a show is set in a specific period, place, time. The context is not malleable.

TDF: Why are you drawn to the “malleable context?” What do you like writing that way?

Schwartz: Well, as a drama school child of the 60s and early 70s, which was so heavily influenced and informed by improvisatory theatre, I think there is something about the experience of doing theatre that still carries with it a certain improvisatory approach. A whole group gets together, and you do something, and this is what came out, and there’s something about it that was a collaborative expression. Rather than, “Here’s the show, put it on.” And I’m not at all criticizing [a “here’s the show” approach]. As I said, I have written shows of which that’s true, and most of my favorite musicals, I would say that’s certainly true of them. I think it’s just the nature of my formative years as a writer.

TDF: Do you still work that way now?

Schwartz: Even though it’s very early days—and who knows if we’ll actually get this written—I can see that Houdini is forming itself as a show that will allow different productions to approach it in a very different way. Even though it’s set in a specific time period, of course, since it’s based on a historical character. But the way the story is unfolding, and Aaron’s approach to it and mine, I can already see that it will not be as defined as a show like Hairspray or My Fair Lady or The Baker’s Wife.

TDF: What does a production gain from working that way?

Schwartz: You’ve got 10 more creative people bringing you ideas and suggestions, and it also gains a cohesion of the cast. So when the show finally happens, there’s an ownership of the piece and a community among the group that is part of the show.

Mark Blankenship is TDF’s online content editor

Photos of “Godspell” and Stephen Schwartz by Jeremy Daniel; Photo of “Wicked” by Joan Marcus